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This is a post.
Upvoting it means you agree with the proposal.
Downvoting it means you disagree with the proposal.
You can answer or comment if you want, but you don't need to.

Proposal:
Move the "Resources for learning Spanish" post to the main site.

Motivation:
Moving the post to the main site would allow new users to easily find it when looking for questions about learning resources.
It would also probably appear on "Similar questions" if a users tries to write a new question asking for learning resources.
Last of all, and given that the site's description welcomes students, it seems weird to some of us to forbid questions about how to learn Spanish. Moving the Meta post to the main site would allow for this kind of questions to just be closed as duplicates of it, instead of off-topic.

Spanish TL;DR:
Mover el post de "Resources for learning Spanish", de Meta al sitio principal, para que salga en las búsquedas, y para poder cerrar preguntas similares como duplicadas en vez de como off-topic usándolo como referencia.


The above proposal has been discussed already on Meta and/or chat, but apparently a consensus has not been reached, because of low participation I guess.

That being the case, I'm opening an official post, so you can just upvote or downvote the proposal. Maybe we can get more users to participate this way.

  • 1
    Bravo. I believe that we have to make the site welcoming and useful to people learning Spanish or we'll never make it out of Beta. I think we should stick to our standards -- with respect and a gentle touch -- but not cave in and answer badly posed questions. Right now we have, effectively, a double standard, where in theory certain types of badly posed questions are supposed to get closed -- but they various well-meaning participants jump in and write answers. I support this proposal wholeheartedly as a way of getting more consistency. – aparente001 Dec 6 '17 at 3:12
  • After getting 4 upvotes and 0 downvotes, this has been approved. The question cannot be migrated because it is more than 60 days old, so I created a new one: Resources for learning Spanish following the format in the German site. Let's try to keep a good list of resources and think deeply on what sections we want there. – fedorqui Dec 20 '17 at 23:12
  • Thanks to the moderating team for going through with the result! @fedorqui May I start «migrating» answers from the Meta post to the main site one? – walen Dec 20 '17 at 23:16
  • walen: sure. I suggest to take it easy by checking every resource and making sure the format is good and clear for newcomers. Also, I am not entirely sure whether blocks like "list of words" or "corpora" are relevant to the question: it may be better to create new questions specific to those. – fedorqui Dec 20 '17 at 23:28
  • @fedorqui Just noticed that "recursos de aprendizaje / learning resources" is still listed in help center as one of the topics not to ask about. Since the implementation of this proposal implies that those questions are no longer off-topic, but duplicates (if anything), the list should probably be updated to reflect that. Could you have a look at it, please? Thanks! – walen Jan 8 '18 at 10:43
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    @walen done! Thanks for reporting – fedorqui Jan 8 '18 at 11:34
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After getting 4 upvotes and 0 downvotes, this has been approved. The question cannot be migrated because it is more than 60 days old, so I created a new one: Resources for learning Spanish following the format in the German site. Let's try to keep a good list of resources and think deeply on what sections we want there.

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I am not very sure of what is the benefit of the change. To me, both situations are fine, so I am not deciding my vote yet :)


I was not a member of the site when its scope was set and I assumed such questions would be always off topic because, in general, questions about lists are disallowed (Why are "shopping list" questions bad?). It would be nice to read the reasoning from the initial members, since I could not find it in this Meta.

We decided to feature our Resources for learning Spanish but I am not very sure how much it is used to prevent such questions. For that, it would probably help to have it added in the How to ask section when you ask a question, but this is something beyond this discussion. However, it is indeed used as a source to answer (I use it as a bookmark myself, since I can jump to CORDE, CREA and so on with one click).

  • The bad part of moving this question to the main site will be that the featured post won't be there anymore. Also, this will free a spot in the off-topic closing reasons.

  • The good part is that we will be able to use it as a target to mark as duplicates. Will this be useful? I am not very sure, since such duplicates won't be very useful and will probably be deleted in the long run.

Which is, in fact, what Charlie expressed few weeks ago:

Así abrimos la posibilidad de preguntar por otro tipo de recursos más específicos, como "¿qué diccionarios hay que se especialicen en términos científicos?". ¿Qué haríamos con estas preguntas? ¿Marcarlas como duplicadas y añadir una nueva sección en la pregunta canónica? ¿O permitir que se desarrollen por su cuenta?

Lo único malo que le veo a esto es que ya no podríamos marcarla como featured y dejaría de aparecer en el cuadro a la derecha, donde creo que tiene buena visibilidad.

If we do this change, we also have to check what answers are we exactly moving, since it currently covers so different aspects, some of them way beyond "learning" and more into the "experts" field.


I have done some research over the main language sites in Stack Exchange and found an interesting discrepancy: all of them have such question, only that some have it in the main site and some in their Meta.

French

They have those in the main site, as a decision after Are resources for learning French on-topic?. I find it specially relevant since the debate was proposed by Gilles, a user with a big knowledge of the stacks and, hence, his solid reasons are always a must-read (which in this case I happen to support).

They also have:

About learning French: means and methods to use.

Ressources pour apprendre ou améliorer son français.

In Meta I found the discussion Learning resources for beginners they led to the wiki question Resources to verify French words, expressions, usage, grammar in the main site (funny thing they also mention us as using this in Meta to disallow resource requests).


German

This was discussed in Are questions about learning resources allowed? and they insist in that they are disallowed, only that they created such question in the main site in a Community Wiki mode, so that it can be used as a target to duplicate against. This lead to Resources for learning German


English learners

I found the debate Are questions asking for resources on-topic? quite interesting, since it shows a broad set of visions and reasonings on them, with references to other stacks and how they work on these.

I don't see an accepted answer, but they seem to have chosed to have those in Meta: Resources for learning English (migrated from the main site).


Japanese

As indicated in one answer in ELL, Japanese has a Meta question Resources for learning Japanese.

  • Well, I would be interested to see what you read that made you think they were the same! Maybe your source has a mistake, or maybe there's something I haven't considered properly. // Here are examples of questions that were considered barely acceptable: english.stackexchange.com/q/380859/112436 ("you need to say what you've considered and rejected") and english.stackexchange.com/q/420211/112436 (two close votes). – aparente001 Dec 9 '17 at 1:37
  • Re: Charlie's answer: actually the answer said he thinks the question should be moved, and I commented that I agree. Both of us have expressed the same opinion back at La Tertulia a couple times, IIRC (I tend to get distracted and end up not typing what I was about to, though, so I might be wrong here). Yes, it wouldn't feature anymore, but there'd be no need to if it wasn't off-topic :-) and it will allow other Meta posts to be featured in its place. If it's still a concern you can just copy it instead of moving it, and have one of them reference the other. – walen Dec 9 '17 at 11:33
  • Re: other language stacks: French.SE and German.SE seem to follow my proposal, allowing such questions and closing them as duplicate if the answer is already in the Resources post. ELL apparently does, too, since the post itself says: «Questions about resources are still allowed, but they will be closed as a duplicate of this question if they are too broad.». On the ELL Meta discussion, the top "allow" answers have scores of +9, +8, +7; while the top "disallow" answer has a score of +2. I'd say most language stacks allow this kind of questions, then. Only Japanese.SE clearly rejects them. – walen Dec 9 '17 at 11:50
  • In the end, it's not about preventing such questions, but actually allowing them to make the stack more welcoming to learning users: even if their question gets closed as duplicate, that's less harsh than outright saying they are not allowed to ask such a thing. I don't really think the number of people coming here to ask for learning resources is that high to begin with, so... – walen Dec 9 '17 at 11:56
  • @walen That being said, there are some remarks I would like to make: a question cannot be migrated if it is older than 60 days, so we have to remake it from scratch. That's why I am asking about the sections that should contain such question in the main site, because it currently contains many that surpass the Resources for learning motto. Does your request mean that we would be accepting all the questions asking for resources linked in the current question? Which is what Charlie was saying in the quote I added to my answer. – fedorqui Dec 10 '17 at 0:10
  • If the question cannot be migrated and needs to be posted again, I volunteer to do so. I think all the resources listed are useful, so I would just copy-paste the question as well as each answer as-is, and mark them CW. Once done, resource questions should (IMO) be treated like any other: dupe-closed if already answered with a resource from the list, given a new answer if not (the list could then be updated with the new resource and the question closed anyway after a while, but that's beyond the scope of this proposal). – walen Dec 12 '17 at 10:01

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